Kiri Cyrelle Meulendyk: The Bow, the Balancing Act, and Boosting Confidence (Comprehensive Recap + Transcript)
Boosting Archery Confidence: A Deep Dive with Mental Performance Consultant
Kiri Cyrelle Meulendyk
Hello, Archery Family! This is the second of three episodes released as part of our launch!
In this episode of the Archery Parent Podcast, hosted by Manisha, the special guest is Kiri Cyrelle Meulendyk, a Mental Performance Consultant (MPC) from PerformYou.
Kiri shares her journey from a Strength & Conditioning coach to a Mental Performance Consultant, particularly in the sport of Archery. Manisha and Kiri delve into the importance of mental performance, confidence-building strategies, handling stress, and the role of parents in an Archer’s mental game.
Kiri explains her philosophy, shares practical tips, and outlines her Confidence Workshop. If you'd like to take the Confidence Workshop, Kiri graciously provided a PROMO CODE for the Archery Parent Podcast listeners: CONFIDENCE50.
Key topics include the dynamics of mental resilience in Archery, the Four Pillars of Confidence, and how parents can find and utilize mental performance consulting services. The conversation also addresses common stigmas associated with mental performance coaching and offers advice on at which stage Archers could benefit from such services.
Listen to Kiri's episode here or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00 Welcome to the Archery Parent Podcast
00:51 Introducing Mental Performance Consultant Kiri Cyrelle Meulendyk
01:56 Kiri's Journey into Mental Performance Consulting
03:27 The Role of a Mental Performance Consultant
06:02 Philosophy and Mission in Mental Performance
09:02 Kiri's Background in National Sport Competition
11:26 The Importance of Enjoying the Journey
16:53 Addressing the Stigma of Mental Performance Consulting
19:19 Optimizing Performance Through Habit Change
21:50 When to Start Mental Performance Consulting
25:08 Confidence and Performance: A Deep Dive
29:04 Introduction to Confidence Workshop
29:21 The Confidence Pool Analogy
30:11 Four Pillars of Confidence
30:40 Performance Accomplishments and Seeing Proof
32:38 Verbal Support and Emotional States
33:19 Managing Stress and Emotional States
36:00 Playing to Win vs. Playing Not to Lose
39:07 Learning from Failures
40:55 Top Athletes' Examples
47:40 Finding a Mental Performance Consultant
50:39 Confidence Workshop Details
52:48 Final Thoughts and Jokes
55:25 Podcast Closing Remarks
This was a great interview and a very much needed one. There is a lot that isn't understood about mental performance and the job a Mental Performance Consult has. It's said that Archery is 10% physical/form and 90% mental. With that ratio, it only makes sense for an Archer to work on their resilience, confidence, and their ability to move on from a bad shot without having it hang over their head into the next arrow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transcript
Introduction:
Manisha: Hello, Archery Family. I'm Manisha, and welcome to the Archery Parent Podcast: What you need to know to best support your Archer. Archery life can come at you quickly, and there are often a lot of questions, but not a lot of answers. We are here to change that. We will share tips, how tos, and more. and what to expect to help you navigate your new Archery lifestyle.
You'll hear from other Archery parents, coaches, and Archers themselves.
We are going to do this one arrow at a time.
Episode Start:
Manisha: Hi everyone, this is Manisha. And we are the Archery Parent Podcast, what you need to know to support your archer and their passion. Today, we're here with Mental Performance Consultant Kiri Cyrelle Meulendyk of PerformYou.
Hi, Kiri. How are you?
Kiri: Hello. It's so good to be here.
Manisha: We're happy to have you. Thanks so much.
Kiri: How are you doing today?
Manisha: Good, good. I'm really excited to have you here today because we are going to talk about what Mental Performance Consulting is. We're going to talk about the importance of it. We're going to talk about you as a mental performance consultant and what that means, and a few other things that are really, really important.
In particular, we're going to talk about confidence.
Kiri: Yes, I'm so excited. I love talking about confidence. I also love working with Archers, so I'm excited to be here today. I hope some of this information can be helpful for the parents of Archers, in Canada, but maybe also beyond the Canadian borders as well.
Manisha: Yes, definitely. So we're going to start out life as a Mental Performance Consultant. Tell us about it. Tell us what it is. Tell us how you started specializing with Archers and Archery.
Kiri: Okay, so. I'll start with the, how I started with Archery and then I can go into what it looks like to be a Mental Performance Consultant.
So, for myself, I started in strength and conditioning and I was really fortunate enough to work with the National Archery Team doing strength and conditioning for close to four years, I think it was. And then I really wanted to pursue mental performance more. And so I transitioned and unfortunately I couldn't do both at the national level due to conflicts of interest reasons.
I transitioned and it was sad to say goodbye to strength and conditioning with the National Team, because I really liked and loved working with the sport. However, I could only pick one, and so mental performance is what I wanted to pursue more. And so I was fortunate enough that the NextGen side of things, I really transitioned from strength and conditioning pretty much right into supporting the NextGen program for mental performance and then I also just have a lot of, through my experience with Archery, a lot of individual clients that I work with that are in Canada, the States, I have a few in Norway, even.
When you look at mental performance consultant work, it really differs for a lot of different consultants depending on the team and the individual. So, some are really embedded and involved with the sport and they're going to practices, they're at games. And, it's almost like they're a coaching staff.
And then from that, they'll provide group sessions and then one-on-one as well. Where others, maybe they have their own office and it can be in-person, but really since COVID, you've seen it be a lot more accessible and I'll sometimes travel with teams for a few weeks here or there, so I'm in-person.
And then I do have an office. I'm based in Collingwood, Ontario, Collingwood Blue Mountain area. So I do have an office, however, probably close to 60, 70 percent is virtual. I am about an hour and a half from Toronto, so I will do day trips too, right. If I'm leading a workshop, then I'll go. I'll observe the practice and be there for practice, have those small conversations, just checking in with the athletes and it's nice when you can be at practice, too because it's more unstructured, right? Like you don't feel like you need to - you're just getting to know them in a more relaxed setting, I find. When you're in person, in their training environment, and then you see them doing their sport, right?
And I think that's so huge too, to just see them doing their sport. I really get a good understanding of, okay, what is the dynamic of their sport look like? And, I'm also observing how the team members interact with each other and that side of things, but I'm observing them because you can also see how they're feeling and reacting to certain challenges as well. For archery, in specific, like on the line, or if they miss the target and I'm there and I can see how they react to that. Sometimes, it's not always best to go up to them in the moment, but afterwards I can follow up, be like, so what, what happened there when you missed the target?
How did you respond? And so, it allows me sometimes a doorway into the conversations when I saw something. I can follow up on it when we do connect one-on-one, as well. So it's different, right? And I love that. Like, I love that it's not the same thing every single day and every week might be slightly different. So I love that different side of the sport and how I'm engaging with the athletes.
Manisha: Would you be able to share with us the philosophy that you have for providing these services?
Kiri: Yeah, yeah. So through my Master's program that I did, we did a ton of inner work and really a lot of reflection. When I come to my philosophy, it always centers back and comes back around growth and learning from absolutely every opportunity and teaching my athletes how to see opportunity as growth. You know, you hear it all the time, you know, you win or you grow.
And it's like, oh, that's a great cheesy quote. It's cheesy because it's true, but it's also so hard to actually learn. And so really giving the athletes and the Archers the skills to learn is amazing because when they do see it as like, ugh, this sucked, but do you know what...I really learned a lot. It allows them to really bounce back a lot quicker and not get so hard and be so down on themselves.
So to go through my mission statement, it is I help athletes perform their best, believe in themselves, and have fun in the process. My experience through sport, it was challenging at times, but I would say I, I always loved it. I always loved it. When I see athletes that are, they're no longer loving their sport, it, it's tough.
And I'm like, I just want, I just want you to love it. I just want you to have fun. Sports should be fun. And so just helping them to understand that this is a process, this is a journey. And so often athletes can be so single-minded of, I want to make that next team. I want to go to the Olympics. And it's like, those goals are great and they can really motivate you. I even did the math once, it's like, you have four years if you want to go to the Olympics. This is what maybe the competition side of things is - that you're at the Olympics about 10 days, so that percentage of the time you're spending to make it to that goal.
It's so small. I think it, I'm going off of memory, but I think it was like 1 or 2%.
Manisha: Right?
Kiri: So, so let's there, yeah. Let's make sure we're enjoying...
Manisha: Yes.
Kiri: ...that whole journey. And, it's really the person you are becoming along that journey. And so getting them to understand that, and it's not that they don't want to perform well, it's giving them the tools that, through the ups and downs, they really feel confident in themselves that they can handle any challenges or adversity and learn from any challenges that may come.
Manisha: I just wanted to share with everybody that you are not unfamiliar with national sport competition. You were on the New Zealand women's hockey team. And so you understand what it is - not only just high performance, but you're representing a country that you love, and you're in a sport that you love, and you were also playing for the women's hockey team for York University.
Kiri: Yes. Yeah. Kind of at the same, same time. I would finish my York season, and then, it was usually after the York season, March or so, I'd go off for a month and play with New Zealand, and, yeah, it'd usually be about a month that I'd be gone. It was the best, right? Like, school sometimes struggles a little bit and just managing school while you're playing, but you would get up, you'd eat, play hockey, go to bed, and just repeat it. And, it was just such a fun time and just traveling, being with the team, but really working together towards those goals. I have so many amazing memories now from that time of competing for New Zealand, so, yeah.
Manisha: You spend an x-number of years on the process of growth and training for an hour, depending on the sport at the Olympics, how long it takes. It could be minutes. It could be a two-minute race, and there's actually a documentary. It was produced by Michael Phelps. It came out, I think, two or three years ago. And it was him plus a number of other U. S. and world athletes who were talking about just that, how we spend our lives for one minute, for ten seconds, for one race, for one particular moment. And if things don't go well, you need to recover from that.
Lindsey Vonn was on it, I believe. There were so many athletes that were able to articulate how important it is to have fun along the way to really put things into perspective of what you're doing, knowing the sacrifices that you're making, and how do you come out and still be confident and, and hold that confidence throughout.
And I just wanted to go into, the stigma of mental performance as well. I've heard Archers, I hear it constantly: Oh, I don't need that. Why would I need that? It's almost like they're offended that they, that someone might think that they might need that. Can you just talk to the various stigmas, the undervaluing of performance consulting and coaching services? And just talk about what, what do parents need to know? Like, it's not a bad thing.
Kiri: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that other point you were saying before, that I just, I feel like I need to double down on that because that's something, and I do want to come back to the stigma side of things too, but I hear it often from athletes, especially when they're unsure if they're going to make it to that next level.
And it usually starts, it's funny, it's usually, it starts to come more when they're at that teenage level. When, you know, there's other things that their friends outside of sport are doing and they tell me all the time, I, I just want to make sure "it's worth it". All this training is "worth it". And I'm like, Ooh, this hits me hard because this means like my, I don't tell it exactly to them, but getting them to understand, okay, well, what are you focusing on? If you're, if you're saying, is this worth it? That means how I perceive it is you are just focusing on that end outcome. And by making that team, then it's going to be "worth it"; by getting a certain score, then it's going to be "worth it".
All this training, not worth it because the sacrifice isn't worth it to them. And so it's, it's tough to get them to realize that, but some can, but then also, if they're starting to have that contemplation, is it worth it to turn it back around? Yeah, maybe. Maybe you don't want to keep competing, right?
Like, are you competing because your parents want you to compete? Or, because you don't know anything else. It becomes a really interesting conversations to go inward. And I just provide the space for the athlete to reflect on that question. I can't tell them if it's worth it or not. But it's getting them to understand that all of their choices in life, and if they can, if they can see the bigger picture in terms of everything happens for - this is a big, too, like how I see it. Things in life happen to us for a reason. And again, learning from all of those and that's okay. Right? We're going to make mistakes, but those mistakes were meant to happen for us to learn from them.
And just accepting that a lot more, I find it makes any what-ifs that they might have in life - I still get what-ifs, but then I always follow it with, but yeah, but look at what life did give me because I did go down this path. And so you're still gonna get those what-ifs, but it's not tied up so much as: This is awful. I can't believe this is where my life is currently at.
Manisha: Right. And when someone says, "it better be worth it", the word "worth" is so arbitrary, but "it," "it better be worth it". And what is "it"? And then, does that mean that they're "worth less" if what they've perceived the "it" to be is not achieved? What happens? Because that is a, that can lead to a literal breakdown of a person.
And when, say for example, if they don't have a performance consultant, they don't have a certain support system in place. Parents are one thing, but there are certain things that parents just don't know how to deal with. And they're not aware of. And if there isn't a - coaches can help definitely, but there's a very specific niche that comes in the support crew that really can attend to that, but it really only comes from a performance consultant slash coach. And, and it's really when people are starting to say that, when athletes say that, it can be really isolating too for them.
Kiri: Yeah. I love how you pointed out that "worth", like the worthy part of thing, right? Because, you know, they're attaching their worthiness to an external factor versus getting, and so a lot of that time I get them, again, you're worthy now, right? Like, you don't need that external goal to be worthy. And, coming back to that, right? Enjoying the journey, but also you're worthy. And you are enough, right now, where you are at on this journey. And it's still okay to want to get better, but getting them to really understand that, yeah, they are worthy is, it's huge. It's so, so huge.
Manisha: Definitely. So, you were going to just talk about stigma and the under-appreciation and undervalue of services that you and your colleagues provide.
Kiri: Yeah. In looking at, I like to see it as a spectrum, too, so when we look at mental health, that's definitely more psychologists, they work on more that side of things. However, the line of work that we do, sometimes we get lumped in with that, right, and so people feel like, oh, okay, you're seeing a psychologist. I'm a strong believer that everybody can benefit from therapy. Often, people wait until you have a problem, which I understand it, right? Our human brain is meant to keep us safe and alive. If we're safe, why do stuff that's uncomfortable if we don't need to, right? And this is side point where it's like, high performance, you need to go against human psychology, in high performance, because again, our brain is there to keep us safe and alive.
And, so why - do you wonder why we never have motivation to do things? Because our brains are not structured for high performance. We need to create that structure in our lives to overcome just the safety that our brain's going to try and keep us as and often reserve energy. So I just find that an interesting side point.
But when we go back to problems, in order for often people to take action, you need enough pain and aggravation to motivate you to change, to take action. And so, when things are good, people often don't want to change things up. What? Why work at this? It's working. I mean, why? What's fun? I know specific times in my key seasons when I'm going to get more phone calls from parents to say, Oh! Well, they've experienced a little bit of pain. So here, here I usually get a certain influx at certain times of the year. Which, you know, I understand it's part of it because we need a little bit of that motivation to change. And understanding that, I think, is really helpful. But then looking at my line of work is, okay, yes, I help people when they do feel like they have problems or challenges in their sport.
But I really like to see myself also on the optimizing side of things. Again, how can we, we're not necessarily designed to be high performers. So how do we take our normal set point and make it better. And when we're looking at my line of work, it is a lot of habit change. And, and also, certain athletes I, I have, all of them have really good habits.
And especially when you look at the ones that have gotten to the national level, they've gotten there because they do have really good habits. However, so, I like to make sure that we're identifying those, because we want to lean into those and keep using those. And then it's really identifying, okay, where are these small habits that we have opportunity to optimize?
And tweaking those and not doing it all at once, because that can be very overwhelming. But just taking small, small steps that's going to help you to optimize and develop habits and that side of things.
Manisha: Sorry, what kind, what, can you just share what would be a habit...
Kiri: Yeah.
Manisha: ... that these high performance athletes have?
Kiri: Yeah.
Manisha: Just a few examples.
Kiri: So the example I usually like to give is visualizing, right? So that could be a habit and a routine that you get into. Maybe it's always the morning of, you want to visualize an end. So, six arrows exactly how you want them, how they want them to feel. You're going to visualize each of them in the ten and so going through and then having that habit of consistency of the same time, every time you're going to do it.
And then it just becomes a habit of every time at that time, they know, okay, this is my visualization time, my six, my six arrows getting it in. So that's a super easy one, but habits can also be, how you react emotionally. Right? Those are habits as well. So there's so many habits, and so it's really taking a few at a time and just helping to optimize those.
Manisha: I guess this question, you have been answering it throughout. Why would an archer need MPC at the beginning? Or I guess, where would, where would an archer start?
Kiri: Mm hmm.
Manisha: Do you think that they should start in high performance? Do you think they should start a little bit earlier? Say someone has been in the sport for a year. When, when do you think is a good time to start?
Kiri: Mm hmm. A lot of times depends on the individual, you know. I'm a strong believer that at any level you can find it helpful and beneficial because all of these skills that you'll be learning for how you handle stress and pressure and mistakes on the Archery line, you can use and transfer into your day to day life too, right? So they can really be helpful at all levels. The reality is that I will get them more if they are really struggling in terms of if they are no longer having fun. If they're finding it challenging in that side of things. Or ,if they have big goals and they want to go far in the sport.
And so it really just depends on where they're currently at. I do work with quite a few other sports and I would say Archery is a lot more open to mental performance consulting than some other sports. It is more embedded in the culture of Archery, I think, being an individual sport, being a sport that you can see the difference so much in terms of when somebody's feeling good, trusting their shot, versus when they're not trusting, and I think they, Archers can just understand it so much more.
So they're a lot more open to mental performance consulting and I find they're quite reflective. It attracts, I think, I'm generalizing, but you know, maybe , athletes who are a little bit more introspective to begin with versus team athletes and that side of things. So I always find I have some of like just great deep conversations with Archers.
Manisha: It has been said that archery is 90 percent mental, 10 percent physical. But there are also comments to say that the the sport of Archery, it, it does involve critical thinking, constant analysis, sometimes that's what you need to quiet, but those are the things that many archers do learn through the sport, and perhaps that might be part of why they're able to articulate. And it is a sport where archers do learn to self advocate. It's highly encouraged. It might take a little while to acquire that skill, but....
Kiri: Yeah, and so many of them, I find, they're training and practicing by their self, right? So they, right, pros and cons, pros and cons, because sometimes it depends what they're thinking about, which can be, if it's helpful or not, but yeah, that in itself creates more space for reflection if they're by themselves.
Manisha: Yes. So something that we have spoken about is how do athletes perform well and still have difficulty with their confidence? So I overheard you in one of your, I don't know if it was a story or one of your videos that you shared, and it was something that you had been discovering, as well, and wanting to sort of figure out to be able to assist others. And could you just share a little bit about what that means and your fascination with it and how do you take that information, distill it into something tangible that you can share?
Kiri: Yeah, I really see two differences to these. So the first one is being anytime you do something new. So one of the big components of confidence is knowing that you've put in the work or doing something before. So maybe this can be going to a new competition. It's new. So your brain doesn't have these expectations of what, or knowing what to expect, because it's new, they haven't done it before.
So that being such a huge component of confidence can make it a little bit more challenging. However, when you still take action and you still are focusing on things that are in your control that are going to help you - your own shot and you are able to still trust your shot when you have those new challenges - it can help you to still do well, but also that's where the biggest growth is going to happen because you had to take action outside of your comfort zone.
So, that is one component I find really important, and it's all about how do you manage the uncertainty and still believe in yourself and maybe not put as high expectations on yourself when you're trying something new. And then the other component is when people work so hard and you look at it and you're like, you've put in the work. You'll be ready, but then they still have that self-doubting and self-critical happening. So this was my huge A-ha, that no matter how much work you put in, if you are still hard on yourself, you're never going to feel that confident because it's never going to be enough. And I think that's where sometimes the root of burnout will come in because it's never enough. And they're so hard on themselves.
And so, if that's the case, then, for some people, we just got to train more. And if you're going to train more, put in more work, the confidence is gonna come. But if you're putting in the work and you're still not feeling confident, oh, okay, we need to work on more your self-talk and we need to work on more - having more self-compassion for yourself, which is all about - when we hear self-compassion, you know, how talking to yourself like you would talk to your best friend. And really, if you wouldn't tell that same thing to your best friend, you should not be talking to yourself with it.
Right. So it's, yeah, really understanding the difference between that and everybody's slightly different and situations can be different as well.
Manisha: Right. So we've been talking about confidence and its impact on performance. Let's talk about the workshop that you have and the work that you've done with Confidence. Specifically, let's talk about the four pillars that you've shared.
Kiri: Yes. I love talking about Confidence. And I feel like athletes love learning about confidence because everybody wants confidence. And so I put together this analogy that I find is really helpful for athletes to understand and thinking like their confidence is a pool and your confidence through time is going to go up and down and there might be some, I like to call it, a little bit of waves because life's going to happen, challenges are going to happen.
Things might drain your pool sometimes, like a mistake, a performance that doesn't go as well, an injury. It could also be in terms of like a rude comment, you know. Things like that can drain your Confidence Pool. But the goal is that we want more water in that pool, so then your baseline, if it does dip a little bit, it doesn't dip as long, as, as much.
But also, we want to learn. We have the four pillars or pipes that are leading into our Confidence Pool. So we want to learn, okay, when do I need to walk back to that pipe and turn on that pipe so I have more water coming in and understanding that at different times you might need to turn on a different pipe.
So when we look at the four different pipes, we have performance accomplishments, seeing proof, verbal support, and emotional states. And so when we look at this, performance and accomplishments is all about putting in the work, but also acknowledging your wins and acknowledging when you do have something successful that you've done.
Seeing proof is seeing other people achieve things that maybe you didn't think was possible. And that can be inspirational, right? So you know, maybe there's some records that people broke at the same, at a similar age as you and you're like, okay, I want to now break that record. And so this one is a little bit touchy because it can be a huge motivation and inspiration. However, if we start to do comparison, we can either put that other person down to be like, Oh, I can't believe they got that. They shouldn't deserve that score or whatever it might be. Or you could put yourself down, right, if you're comparing.
So, it's really important to see seeing proof can be in terms of seeing other, other people achieve great things. And you see a lot in like the minority, right? Like seeing people, if you're similar background that are doing a sport, like I see this, you know, hockey being my sport, more representations and in hockey, it's, it's bigger. So then now you have the younger generation being like, Oh, wow. Seeing this more; individuals who look like them, and that can be inspiring. So again, seeing proof as inspiration, as if they can do it, I can do it too. And if you know the person who'd do it, that should be even better because you can learn from them.
If not, maybe you've got to do some research and, you know, the internet, that side of things is great these days, and you can do some research. But yeah, if you know them, that's great. Learn as much as you can from those people who inspire you. Right?
And then the next category is verbal support. So this is really the community around you, coaches, parents, your other teammates, the support that you get from them.
But also the really, really big component here is your support, right? What is your self talk? So we were talking about that earlier in terms of being your own best friend and your own biggest cheerleader. So we were versus being your biggest critic and that's big. I will say I work on that quite a bit with my athletes.
And then the last component and the more I learn about it, the more I'm like, Ooh, this is a really important one. I call it emotional states, but it's all about managing stress. Manage how do you perceive stressful situations? So if you miss the target, you totally missed the butt, do you freak out or do you handle that and stay calm and you're still trusting your shot.
And so I see that as what I was talking earlier about in the challenges, still having confidence and the tools that you can work through any challenges. I work on this a lot with my athletes just to be like, okay, in these challenges, how do you overcome them and give them the tools that they feel confident no matter what, they can overcome those challenges. And...
Manisha: Right.
Kiri: If they start to get that, it'll allow them to like their sport more, love their sport more. It'll allow them to enjoy the process more because they're confident in their ability to learn. They're confident in their ability to be resistant or resilient and work through challenges. And they actually are more open to challenges and not as scared to take risks and challenges because if they know that they'll learn and they'll be okay versus this might be the end of the world if I miss the target; if I miss the butt like oh my goodness, right. So it's, it's a really big one that it also goes hand in hand in terms of their self-talk and what they tell themselves, but it's a really big one that I work on with all all my athletes I'd say.
Manisha: Let's take the example of match play. So you've got one-on-one match play, say one Archer wins both sets, wins the first two. They planned their first two sets, and then the third one's like, I got this. And then, how often is it that we see the opponent win the third set and actually go on to win, even when it was very unevenly matched, say within the rankings. We see it all the time. How do Archers move on from that when they've gone from this very high confidence level to sort of the walk of shame? Do they see an opportunity to correct themselves?
Kiri: So there's this concept, playing to win versus playing not to lose. And playing to win in the research, they call it a challenge state. Playing not to lose is a threat state. And when you are in a threat state, it's really just how you perceive the situation, your self-talk changes the physiology in your body.
The bottom line is, less oxygen to your working muscles of the brain versus when you're in a challenge state. You have more oxygen to your working muscles and brain, so it comes easier. That's when people in the threat state, they're like, I, I just, I felt tense. I felt like I choked a little bit. Like, I, I didn't - they can't process things and understand, but it actually is physiologically makes sense.
Manisha: I believe it's Lanny Bassham that states when you are in that, that mode, you need to yawn because the yawn will bring in oxygen and then help you get rid of your carbon dioxide and so that they, there is a chemical...
Kiri: Yeah.
Manisha: ...change.
Kiri: Yes.
Manisha: And, you're allowing oxygen into the muscles that you are tensing...
Kiri: Mm-Hmm.
Manisha: ...that are restricted.
Kiri: Yeah. Yeah.
Manisha: I just wanted to throw that in.
Kiri: So I love that. And it makes so much sense. So, when you're in more of a threat state, you're in a little bit more of a sympathetic state and it's a range. I like to think of it a little bit more of an inverted U, where you want a little bit, you know, you want a little bit of that adrenaline, but too much and it can become overpowering and it can become detrimental. So a little bit can be good. So, if you get too much, you want to do something that's going to bring down your sympathetic and kick on more your parasympathetic, so your "rest and digest" and more of your calming nervous system.
So yawning makes sense or any, that's where a lot of breathing - you'll hear all the time. So, box breathing. So, if it's breathe in for four, hold for four, out for four, hold for four; or lengthening your exhale on your breath. So, anything that's just going to bring you back into the present moment, breathing, or there's lots of different techniques. I actually have a list that I can provide and I have like, I have YouTube videos to all of them. So I can provide a list to all the listeners because it's all about trying out and figuring out which technique works to them to bring, calm them back down; bring them back into a present state, so then they can, okay, what's the next step I need to do?
If you're in that stress state, you're never going to be able to process things, right?
So the first step is just, well, first off is being able to notice, and then doing something. So interesting coming back to your first question, or the first question there in terms of what do I do. I think this is really important for parents to understand too, is when this happens in matches, when they are up and then lose, I actually, I love it.
It needs to happen because it goes back to that learning, right? They need, they need to experience losing a match when they're up. So then the next time they know, Oh, okay, when I start to get into the state again. What do I do? And a lot of my work is, well, okay, what happened? Okay. What can we try differently?
And, and it's not like right away they're going to get it. It's okay. Maybe that helped a little bit and we're just tweaking it as we go. Again, it goes back to learning from your failures or - I don't like to say failures, but learning from those. And it's really not a failure if you're learning from it, because if you're at a smaller competition and it happens, now you're at a bigger competition, maybe more international, and you start to feel like that, you've already experienced it.
You know what to do.
Manisha: Right.
Kiri: You've put those reps in, in what to do, and so, yeah, athletes need to experience a little bit of that, kind of coming back to that discomfort in order to learn how to overcome it.
Manisha: I'll just bring up two examples of top athletes, top archers in the world, losing in their first round.
So, the Olympics, when Kim Woo Jin from Korea called it and said, I am going to shoot a 700, the Archery world went ballistic. And then everyone had their eyes on it. World Archery was every - nearly every article, it was, okay, this is what we're going to watch. He called it. There's a lot of pressure on him. He knows every single set of eyes is going to be watching. And he did it.
The next day, they moved into individual match play, and Kim Woo Jin, who was going in as the number one Archer in the world, lost his first match to the last place ranked Archer. These are things that happen. I don't know the psychology of what happened, so I'm not going to say that, but it would be so fascinating to see what was his mental state going in forward.
Did he take the situation for granted? Thinking, I just did this yesterday, I'm on a high, or was there an adrenaline dump happening where he wasn't able to recoup his muscles and perform the way he expected he should? And was he celebrating, and I don't mean like partying, but I mean mentally was he celebrating in a way that meant, you know what? I've got this. Gold is mine. It's hard to say because I don't know Kim Woo Jin.
The second example - we are filming this interview on day three of the Pan Am Games for 2023 that are happening right now in Santiago, Chile, and, Marcus D'Almeida from Brazil, he was the top Archer finishing on day one in qualifications, and he lost his first match in the 1/16th, I believe.
World Archery did ask, you know, what happened, and he said he did make a statement to it just didn't go as he thought it would. So those are two examples of what you were just referring to prior to that, but, yeah, how do you come from that?
Because it is a learning experience. You go in a certain way, and you have to experience it so that next time you remember, maybe don't take things for granted. Yeah. Don't just assume things are going to go the way you thought it would without the focus that you should be putting into it.
Kiri: So much to unpack in that one. So society doesn't help the pressure and the sport. And, you are rewarded for the end outcome. You are rewarded for the success. And so it makes sense why Archers and everybody is so hyper-focused on that end outcome. And, so these big events that come along add a little bit more pressure to it and everybody's slightly different in terms of how they approach it. But often, if you can zoom out and say, again, this is three days of my Archery career. Does this competition here really define me as an Archer and a person? And, in the moment it sometimes feels like a death, but when you can zoom out and really understand: I'm way more than this competition, or also I am way more than just an Archer. It can be a lot, a lot easier. But it also comes down to accepting that you're okay with whatever that outcome might be.
And this is the big thing. It's, oh, it's so fascinating. I find this so fascinating. When Archers get it and they - something clicks and they're like, I don't know. I just, I just don't care anymore. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's back up a second. Because I'm sure you do care. And I'm, so I just, I thought about it a lot.
I'm, like, what do they mean by that? And so, my current understanding is, of it is, they no longer feel like they need to control the end outcome. So, it's actually more of a releasing control, which allows them to feel more carefree. And what happens is they're allowed to be more in the present moment.
Then they trust their shot a lot more. And something I learned with Archery; big, one of the biggest, biggest things is trusting your shot. And so if you can release control of that end outcome and just, it really helps you to come back each shot, trusting each shot. And then they feel like they don't care, but they're just having so much more fun.
They're just in the present moment. And so again, coming back to these big competitions, right, if they can continue to come back to that and understand, okay, how do I get back to this trust? And each, and this goes into, you know, the confidence when we look at that, the pipe of emotional states, right? How do they manage all of this when the pressure is on?
But if they have the confidence that I'll be okay. Whatever the end outcome is, I'll work my way through it. It doesn't define me. I'll learn from it. Then the results often come, right? Focus on, it helps them to really focus on the process and it's funny by releasing control of the end outcome, the outcome they want often comes.
Manisha: Right, right. So tell us, how would a parent find a mental performance consultant?
Kiri: So the best place to go is the Canadian Sports Psychology Association, CSPA, so I can send you the links to that afterwards, and there's a tab on there that says "Find a Consultant", and it has a list of everybody who's a registered consultant - part of this organization. And, it's the biggest organization in Canada. And we're actually right now in the process of merging with ASP, which is in the States.
The biggest, biggest thing when looking for a consultant would be that relationship that you have with them. So, really if that's that athlete, making sure that you feel comfortable with that Mental Performance Consultant and, that's okay if it's not me or that's okay if it's not the first person you try out because you want to make sure that you feel comfortable to actually express how you feel ,so you can get the most benefit out of your time that you're spending with them.
Manisha: So there are three questions that I'm sure parents would be asking. Number one, can I be involved in the sessions? Number two, what should I expect for costs? Three, is it something that can be covered through private benefits or health benefits?
Kiri: Yes, so it depends the age. I would say, for the involvement with the parent, I do really like when I'm on the same page with the parent, or when they are a little bit younger, I will have the parent involved a little bit more, and, the parent comes in more at the end of the session, and because that parent's driving them, that parent is with them so much, and a lot of, you know. I'll give them activities to do, and younger kids, and so that can be nice to have the parent on that side of things.
Once they get a little bit older, then I like to work a little bit more hands on with the athlete and also in terms of, are they at the stage where you know, maybe they are paying as well, or maybe they're making those bigger decisions in their life, so depending on their age and that involvement with their parent. But it is, it is nice to just be on the same page with the parent when working with them, yeah.
A little bit under a hundred all the way to like $200, $250. It is quite a range. You do have some Mental Performance Consultants who are psychologists, so if you have that combination, then you can get that covered under the insurance side of things.
Manisha: One of the things that you are working on, and you have one coming up very, very soon, is the Confidence Workshop. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Kiri: Yes. So, I did do a Confidence Audit Workshop, which is just really a check in, and it goes through these concepts as well. And that's a one-hour, just a little introduction check in to the confidence side of things. And, then I also have a Confidence Course, so that's a little bit bigger and that goes through some of the pool analogy. But it really, it's a six-week program that provides a ton of practical information that allows athletes to dive deeper into their confidence, but because it has that practical side, you're really coming back to it and you're working actively on your confidence. And then the Confidence Course also includes two 30-minute sessions with me to just really help with that application of the, of the of the Confidence Course.
Manisha: Great. And you have something to share with the Archery Parent Podcast viewers and listeners too.
Kiri: Yes, so anybody listening if they are interested in the Confidence Course, I'll give $50 off all the Archery Podcast Parents listeners. And I really do find the Confidence Course is a great starting point and entry to mental performance. It gives a ton of practical tools.
It's really good for students who didn't mind online school. If you absolutely hated online school, then one-on-one might be a little bit different, or might be a little bit better. But often, I'll have athletes sometimes do the Confidence Course, and then I'll continue with them on the side. It's a great bang for your buck in terms of you get a lot of resources. And you can learn on your own and apply them on your own. So, yeah.
Manisha: As we're coming to the end of our interview, is there anything that we missed? Anything I didn't ask you? Anything you'd like to share? Or just sort of final comments for parents about confidence or services, anything you'd like to share.
Kiri: You want to take away their pain; where it's more creating that space to sit with them and actually be okay with the journey. It's okay, like, it's not always going to be amazing and fun, but knowing that they have that support when it is challenging.
And you don't always need to save and take away their pain, but actually sometimes them processing and working through it and actually feeling the emotions that might come up. You know, crying is actually okay. There's nothing wrong with that. And if you cry after a competition, sometimes that's actually better because it might come up later on in a competition.
So just continuing to support them. But you don't need to solve what their problems may be.
Manisha: Right. Well said. Well said. So, one of the ways that I wrap up the interview is to tell a joke, and yeah, we're just gonna go for it. And actually, because this is a couple days after Halloween, I actually have two jokes.
Kiri: Oh! So lucky.
Manisha: One is Halloween-based. So, do you want the regular one or the Halloween-related one first?
Kiri: Halloween, for sure.
Manisha: Okay. What did the Mummy say at the end of Archery practice?
Kiri: I would probably need more time to think about this. Okay. Tell me,
Manisha: Let's wrap this up.
Kiri: There you go. That's, that's really good.
Manisha: Okay. And the other one I was going to say share with you was: "Knock, knock!"
Kiri: Who's there?
Manisha: Canoe.
Kiri: Canoe, who?
Manisha: Canoe help me find a Mental Performance Consultant?
Kiri: Yeah.
Manisha: There we go.
Kiri: Well.
Manisha: There we have it.
Kiri: I like it.
Manisha: Kiri, thank you so much. We will have all the links, all the references that Kiri has shared with us in the show notes. And to our listeners and our viewers, if you have any topics, any ideas, any questions that you want to share, let us know. We are here for you, and this is a space for you to talk and find out what you need to know.
This is Manisha. This is the Archery Parent Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you again next time.
Outro:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Archery Parent Podcast. This show is for Archery parents by an Archery parent. You can find more episodes at archeryparentpodcast.ca. While there, sign up for our newsletter and check out our blog. Share this episode with at least one other Archery Parent. The Archery Parent Podcast is available in both audio and video formats.
If you have questions, ideas, or comments, we want to hear them.
The Archery Parent Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Manisha.
Reece Wilson-Poyton and Elissa Foley are our resident Archery consultants and contributors.
Fact checking by Manisha, Reece, and Elissa.
Our theme music is "The Stranger" by Wooden Flowers, Michael Menart & Adam Corey Tenenbaum.
Sound production is by ARmedia.ca.
Follow us on social media and YouTube for additional tips, how to's, and what you need to know to best support your archer. I'm Manisha of the Archery Parent Podcast. We're doing this one arrow at a time.
